Scott and Laci Peterson Case The Fairness of the Trial and Efforts for a New Trial

Scott and Laci Peterson Case The Fairness of the Trial and Efforts for a New Trial

In this episode, the hosts discuss the Scott and Laci Peterson case. They provide an overview of the case and share their personal experiences and perspectives. They also explore the involvement of the Innocence Project and the LA Innocence Project in seeking a new trial for Scott Peterson. The conversation covers topics such as Scott and Laci's background, their relationship, the day Laci went missing, and the evidence presented in the trial. The hosts highlight the discrepancies and unanswered questions in the case and discuss the potential for a new trial. The conversation explores various theories and inconsistencies surrounding the Scott Peterson case. Key points include the existence of a missing tape, glitches in the courthouse scanner, the behavior of the Peterson's dog, the involvement of burglars, Scott's affair with Amber Frey, and his narcissistic personality. The conversation raises questions about the fairness of the trial and the lack of thorough investigation. The California Supreme Court overturned the death penalty due to improper screening of jurors, and there are ongoing efforts to secure a new trial. The conversation explores the possibility of Scott Peterson receiving a fair trial and the need for DNA testing and evidence discovery. The discussion also delves into the books written by Scott's stepsister and another author, which present alternative theories and suspects. The missing watch and the van that was burned are discussed as potential pieces of evidence. The conversation concludes with the hosts expressing their differing opinions on Scott's guilt and the need for a new trial.

Takeaways

• The hosts provide an overview of the Scott and Laci Peterson case and share their personal experiences and perspectives.
• They discuss the involvement of the Innocence Project and the LA Innocence Project in seeking a new trial for Scott Peterson.
• The conversation covers topics such as Scott and Laci's background, their relationship, the day Lacey went missing, and the evidence presented in the trial.
• The hosts highlight the discrepancies and unanswered questions in the case and discuss the potential for a new trial. The conversation highlights various inconsistencies and unanswered questions in the Scott Peterson case.
• The existence of a missing tape and glitches in the courthouse scanner raise concerns about the integrity of the evidence.
• The behavior of the Peterson's dog and the involvement of burglars add complexity to the case.
• Scott's affair with Amber Frey and his narcissistic personality are discussed as possible motives.
• The fairness of the trial is questioned, and efforts are being made to secure a new trial. The need for a fair trial and the importance of DNA testing and evidence discovery
• The existence of books that present alternative theories and suspects
• The significance of the missing watch and the burned van as potential evidence
• Differing opinions on Scott Peterson's guilt and the need for a new trial

Transcript

We Wine Whenever (00:01.098)
Hi, welcome to We Why Whenever, I'm Wendy.

Kelli (00:03.794)
I'm Kelly.

Lori (00:04.738)
and I'm Lori.

We Wine Whenever (00:06.702)
Today we're talking about the Scott and Lacey Peterson case. So we have done a deep dive on this whole new trial thing, the conviction. I watched the Scott Peterson side of it that was on Peacock. Kelly watched the Lacey Peterson side that was on Netflix. And Lori has done some, you tell us what you've done, Laura.

Lori (00:33.85)
I watched The Peacock face to face with Scott Peterson. I did not get to watch The Hulu, The Murder of Lacey Peterson. Or I did watch The Hulu Nightline, Scott Peterson, The Wrong Man. There was a Netflix American Murder, Lacey Peterson. That's the one I watched. And then I...

Kelli (00:55.203)
Yeah, that's what I watch.

Lori (01:00.92)
watched several episodes of something called True Crime Rocket Science on YouTube and another person that did a very deep dive on TikTok and just general online different sources that I kind of went to and read comments and blah, blah. So I think we should have a good all around picture of the whole situation.

Kelli (01:25.587)
Yeah.

Lori (01:28.28)
But you know, it's interesting because now there's this whole set of people who don't really know who Scott Peterson is, where to us, it was something that was so prevalent and so engaging at the time that, you know, people our age know exactly what the case was. But now since this resurgence, there's going to be a whole another set of people who get to look at it from a totally different angle than we did. So,

Kelli (01:57.204)
Now, I did not realize I was talking to Tess about it and telling her that we were doing this. I was pregnant. I got pregnant with Tess in February of 2023. I keep doing that. February of 2003. And she went missing in December 2002. So I was pregnant while watching this all play out on the news. I didn't realize it until we started, you know, looking into this.

Lori (01:57.388)
I think it's just interesting.

Lori (02:22.02)
Thank

We Wine Whenever (02:25.538)
Right, right.

Lori (02:26.808)
And for us too, when

Kelli (02:27.666)
I mean, I remember it. I remember hearing about it watching it on the news every day. I just didn't realize now that I was pregnant at the time.

Lori (02:36.14)
And now, now, you know, it's, have all this internet and all, back then it was just the news. So when there was a news story on, especially, you know, it was like the perfect storm, their story. It would, you know, it was attractive people. It was a downtime in the news. It was, know, Christmas time is a downtime. It was a pregnant woman. It was this whole captivating thing that I don't think people from.

We Wine Whenever (02:36.205)
Right.

Lori (03:06.306)
a generation now can really understand what something was like then because there was not that much to capture your attention. There was the television and that was it. And it was like a news talk show on the radio, but that was it. So when something became a big thing, it was a big thing.

Kelli (03:16.306)
Yeah, that's it.

Kelli (03:25.0)
Yeah, for sure.

We Wine Whenever (03:28.088)
So where did they meet, Laura? Where did Scott and Lacey meet?

Lori (03:39.875)
It's just technological difficulties.

Kelli (03:45.128)
Well, I saw that they met at college.

We Wine Whenever (03:50.83)
Yeah, in 1995 they met in college. guess Scott had received a golf scholarship to Arizona State.

Lori (03:51.097)
Yeah.

Kelli (03:57.857)
I didn't know that.

Lori (03:58.754)
Yes, but he only went for one semester and he got a girl pregnant whom had an abortion and then he returned home and he subsequently spent, he attended like three different colleges in four years. And Lacey in her freshman year, she lived with her boyfriend Kent, whom she dated in high school, who was emotionally and

Kelli (04:09.096)
I didn't know any of this!

We Wine Whenever (04:10.787)
Mm -hmm.

Lori (04:27.192)
physiologically abusive. They broke up and later he tried to stab his next girlfriend in the back and went to prison. So, yes, yes. Yes. So, you know, supposedly Scott really loved Bob Lacey. So you have to think of it from kind of Lacey's perspective. I believe her first boyfriend in high school, before this Kent person.

Kelli (04:36.212)
Kent.

We Wine Whenever (04:37.976)
Kent, yes.

Lori (04:56.92)
was also kind of manipulative. Then she was involved with this Kent person and then he ends up, you know, trying to murder someone and goes to jail. So by the time she meets Mr. Wonderful, Scott Peterson, with all his game, you know, definitely it has been said that he definitely loved bombed her. And their first date...

Kelli (05:07.934)
Tish.

Kelli (05:14.739)
Yes.

Kelli (05:20.114)
Yeah, three good girlfriends were interviewed in the one that I watched on Netflix. And the one said, we didn't use that term back then, but he definitely loved, her.

Lori (05:31.45)
Yeah. So, their first date was, on a boat, deep sea fishing, which is pretty apropos to how things end. And they were married in 97. she graduates before him and gets this dream job in the Bay area while he stays with these three other single guys on campus. And word on the street is that he already started cheating on her then.

Kelli (05:43.732)
for sure.

Lori (06:01.594)
because they were married but living apart. And Scott wants to stay in this fun college town. It's his, you know, it's his gig. She wanted to move to the Bay Area where she had gotten this job and settled down, start a family. So Scott convinces Lacey to move back and Scott's father gifts him an established location from the family's packing business. But Scott decides to sell this business.

so that him and Lacey can purchase their own sports bar and restaurant called The Shack. So they ran that for a year or so and then they sold the business and then they bought their home in Modesto, California.

Kelli (06:47.248)
Is that where Lacey was from Modesto?

Lori (06:50.178)
I believe that her family was from that area. I know that his mother was very, tried to be kind of hoity -toity about it and was not thrilled for her golden child to be moving to this farm town of Modesto. But I think kind of Lacey probably put the pressure on and really wanted to move there and settle down. So that's what they ended up doing.

Kelli (07:09.362)
Yeah.

Kelli (07:17.321)
He did not want kids, right? And she did. Yeah, that was established.

Lori (07:19.394)
No, he did not want kids. No, did not want kids. Yes. So, you know, around this time when they moved back to Modesto is when Scott finds out about his long lost half brother and sister. But that story's for another time, you know, later on in our podcast. But just to give you a context of when things go on. So,

Kelli (07:43.507)
Yeah.

Lori (07:47.578)
you know, he's tried his hand at the restaurant thing. It was very consuming, the restaurant as restaurants are. He gives in to her and they move back to Modesto. And that's when he finds out about his step siblings. from there, you know, in 2000, so in 2000, they purchased their home. And in 2001,

They both take out insurance policies. So October 20th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then going by a timeline, October 24th, that's when Scott. No, no, not at all. Yeah. think Scott, no, not at all. So then, when do you want to pick up from there?

Kelli (08:20.414)
life insurance.

We Wine Whenever (08:29.006)
Well that's not uncommon though. Yeah. Yeah. They purchased a house. were, you know, that's not uncommon.

Kelli (08:30.494)
It's not uncommon. They just got married. I mean, it's a smart thing to do. Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (08:44.078)
Before I do, see also that Lacey was a substitute teacher while Scott was a traveling salesman for a fertilizer company.

Lori (08:54.841)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (08:56.46)
So, you know, that's how we find out that, because I didn't know like why they had this warehouse, you know, that we're going to later find out about. I have.

Lori (09:06.062)
Yeah, first.

We Wine Whenever (09:09.762)
Go ahead.

Lori (09:10.702)
First, he initially sold the big agricultural sprinkler systems that farmers use. And then he segued into the fertilizing end of it. And when he segued into the fertilizing end, that's when he got the warehouse.

We Wine Whenever (09:29.511)
okay. Okay, see.

Kelli (09:30.676)
So was it his business? Was he self -employed or did he work for somebody? We don't know.

Lori (09:35.258)
No, I believe he worked for somebody, but he had that facility to store all of his goods that he had to schlep around selling.

Kelli (09:45.128)
Got it. Got it.

Lori (09:45.914)
So in that facility, he did have chemicals. He had his fertilizer.

We Wine Whenever (09:54.094)
Okay. So yeah, so where I started with on for Scott's side, the face -to -face with Scott Peterson is that, like she said, they were living in Modesto, California, and she went missing when she was nine months pregnant on December 24th, 2002. He has been in prison since April of 2003 and has not spoken on camera in 21 years until now. Yeah.

Kelli (10:04.07)
Excuse me.

Kelli (10:21.385)
Wow.

Lori (10:23.17)
On camera though, has given, right, but he has given phone interviews. It's not like he's been sitting there and not talking to anybody, but just not on camera.

We Wine Whenever (10:23.931)
some of his on camera

Kelli (10:33.65)
Right. Got it.

We Wine Whenever (10:34.23)
Right, right. He regrets not taking the stand. That's one of the things that he regrets. The Innocence Project, which is what has made this such a big deal now, the Innocence Project is working on getting him a new trial and they're looking for getting discovery and DNA testing that was never received. And Scott does at this time still today maintain his innocence.

Lori (11:03.948)
In regards to that, I just want to put out there, and I think this is very important because I've watched several things so far where they have thrown around that name incorrectly of the Innocence Project, because it is not the Innocence Project. It is the LA Innocence Project, and it is two totally different things. The Innocence Project is a well -established entity. This

We Wine Whenever (11:09.165)
Mm -hmm.

Lori (11:33.038)
This other LA Innocence Project is not, and I can give you some information on that when you're ready. But I just wanted to put that out there because there was another show that I watched and they kept saying.

We Wine Whenever (11:41.324)
No, I want to know now.

Kelli (11:42.878)
Kim Kardashian is part of what?

Lori (11:46.052)
Probably the Innocence Project. Yeah. So.

Kelli (11:47.518)
The Innocence Project. And I wonder what Emily Simpson is involved in, because she's involved in it too.

Lori (11:54.65)
Right. So in 2000, yeah, yeah. So in 2024, yes. And they'll just throw out that innocence project, like on the slide, like not even mentioning that it's a totally separate entity, the LA Innocence Project. They make it sound like it's that big. No, it is a totally separate organization.

We Wine Whenever (11:56.046)
Yeah, the interesting thing is they're all in LA.

Kelli (11:58.321)
Exactly.

We Wine Whenever (12:01.134)
I didn't know that, that there was two different.

Kelli (12:01.512)
Exactly.

Kelli (12:17.19)
It's not like just a branch of.

Like there's an Innocence Project and then there's an LA one, a New York one, a New Jersey. It's not like that. I know that LA is a city and New York and New Jersey are still people. So don't come for me for geography.

Lori (12:25.539)
Yes.

Lori (12:33.37)
Yeah, no, we get that. Right. So in January, 2024, the LA Innocence Project takes the case. They request that 14 items be tested or retested, which include items from the burnt orange van, which we will talk about later, and additional forensics on a piece of duct tape found on Lacey's clothes. The judge only allowed the duct tape. But now, that bl - and there was a bloody mattress inside

We Wine Whenever (12:33.87)
you

Lori (13:02.778)
this van that we'll talk of later, but that has been tested as early as 2019. So also they state that this LA Innocence Project states that within a one mile radius of the Peterson home, there were 24 sightings of Lacey, and within a three mile radius, an additional seven, which is a total of 31. They also question taped jailhouse

Kelli (13:30.728)
That morning.

Lori (13:33.486)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (13:34.434)
Yeah, not just that morning. Yes, that morning, that specific morning.

Lori (13:39.608)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (13:41.57)
but i wanted to know the difference between the l a innocence project any innocence project

Lori (13:48.034)
Okay, I'll get to that. Let me see.

Lori (14:03.002)
It was founded in 2022 with a $1 million, the LA Innocence Project founded in 2022 with $1 million in seed money donated from an exoneree after a wrongful conviction. It has a staff of 20 members. And as per Oxygen .com, an article that I read stated that there were several more law

We Wine Whenever (14:04.716)
And the reason up.

We Wine Whenever (14:08.546)
The LA -1.

Kelli (14:23.347)
Wow!

Lori (14:32.184)
based advocacy groups in the state. So that kind of leads you to like, what does that mean? Like, are they not that based in the law? Are they more based in?

Lori (14:46.786)
everybody gets a fair trial. Like this as per oxygen .com, there was an article and it stated that there are several other more law -based advocacy groups in the state. So just the wording of it of how in the article they were talking about this LA Innocence Project, I don't know how law -based it is.

Kelli (14:47.122)
Yeah, what did you say?

Kelli (15:12.828)
Yeah. Yeah, like more law -based. It should all be law -based.

Lori (15:17.185)
Right, so is this -

We Wine Whenever (15:18.05)
Yeah, because real

We Wine Whenever (15:22.126)
The whole, like you said in the beginning, whole premise of the LA Innocence Project, what they're requesting is, and I had kind of mentioned this, is that he didn't receive a fair trial because one, all the discovery was not presented to them, and two, some of the testing was not, DNA testing wasn't even done on the things. There was no forensic evidence that tied him to this murder. It was totally circumstantial. That's what

Lori (15:22.137)
I don't know.

We Wine Whenever (15:51.096)
they're basing this on. so what is, I'm sorry, what is the regular Innocence Project? Like, where are they? What's the difference?

Kelli (15:52.862)
So they have...

Lori (16:01.316)
They are well established. They've been around for years. That's chock full of really highly experienced lawyers. That is what you would normally think of what the Innocence Project would be. Tons of lawyers who really want to comb over past cases and see where things went wrong and re -go over everything and...

or I don't believe that this LA Innocence Project is so new, it's so fresh. It's not, I mean, you can do some further research on it, but it just doesn't seem to be anything near what the original Innocence Project.

Kelli (16:41.01)
And it's interesting as to why the original Innocence Project did not take this on. So when there's a criminal trial, the prosecution has the burden of proof. And the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this person is guilty. There cannot be any doubt. So the jury must have been

Lori (17:07.684)
Didn't have it out.

Kelli (17:07.72)
convinced beyond the reasonable doubt that he was guilty.

We Wine Whenever (17:11.957)
Well, there was some of the jurors that were on the actual jury on the Scott Peterson documentary that was three parts. And what they were saying is, you know, based on the evidence that was given to them, that was presented to them, that's the conclusion that they would make. But now that they're hearing that there's other evidence that was never presented because it was not made available to the defense,

or it wasn't even investigated, which is a big part of Scott Peterson's claim, is that there was people like Lori said early, a lot of people who saw Lacey Peterson later that morning. the defense's, excuse me, the prosecution's biggest, their biggest piece of evidence was the timeline.

Kelli (18:05.874)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (18:06.05)
And the timeline they used to establish was by that woman, I think her name was Karen Server, that she saw Lacey with the dog, the dog was out when the dog was returned back. That was the timeline. Yes, yes, I don't remember her name. The neighbor, that woman that, yeah.

Lori (18:19.705)
the woman who returned the dog back to the yard, right. Well, in regard... Yes.

Kelli (18:23.23)
The neighbor.

So let's start from the beginning. Let's start from that day.

We Wine Whenever (18:32.46)
Yes.

Kelli (18:34.27)
So, Scott?

goes fishing, right? But then later tell somebody he went golfing.

Lori (18:41.402)
We'll be.

We Wine Whenever (18:44.16)
No. So yes, that's what happens. let, mean, so it starts with she's missing and he comes home, right? And he finds out she's missing. The only people he said he, he went golfing to are Lacey's parents because according to him, they didn't know about the boat. And according to him, the boat was bought as a

Kelli (18:53.448)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (19:12.77)
gift. was going to be a surprise for the father, for Lacey's father, because she was expecting a boy and the father really enjoyed fishing and he was going to be able to bond with his grandson. So he didn't tell them that he went out fishing. He said he was golfing, which would be something that he would do.

We Wine Whenever (19:35.192)
I don't know that he told anybody else.

Kelli (19:35.518)
But he does tell the cop, he told the cop and the one I watched that he was going to go golfing, but then it was too cold that morning. And he changed his mind and went fishing for the maiden voyage of his new boat.

We Wine Whenever (19:45.058)
Yes, that's... Yes.

Lori (19:51.426)
Right. Which, which makes, right. Which makes total sense because if it's too cold to golf, it'll be just perfect out on that Bay with the wind blowing. It's cold as hell on that Bay. It makes no sense. This is stupid.

We Wine Whenever (19:51.49)
Yes, he said that in mine too.

Kelli (20:07.238)
Yeah, but you're going fishing, so you're gonna like bundle up. You're gonna put all your gear on and... Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (20:14.094)
was 90 miles away so the temperature 90 miles away I don't know if it was south or north 90 miles because that's going to make a difference in the temperature too or 90 minutes not 90 miles I know it's always colder but again

Lori (20:20.484)
Well, it's on... Right, but on the water, it's always... Right, right. On the water, it's always colder.

Kelli (20:30.655)
for sure.

We Wine Whenever (20:31.692)
Yeah. So that, you know, that's, that's how it does start. So he did, I got the same story on the Scott Peterson side too, that it was a game day decision. He was originally go golfing, but the reason that he told his in -laws that is because, you know, he didn't want to ruin the surprise. They didn't know about the boat.

Kelli (20:48.884)
Yeah, so he comes home and she's not there and he puts his clothes in the washing machine. He takes a shower, which when you're out fishing all day, that is 100 % the first thing you would do. And your wife could, I mean, she could be at the grocery store for crying out loud. Cell phones weren't a huge thing at this time.

Lori (21:04.783)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (21:05.12)
I agree.

Lori (21:09.988)
Well, her, no, no, no, no, no. Her car was home. So it's either somebody came in, somebody must've came and got her. Like he could think to himself, maybe her mom came and got her and she's at the house.

We Wine Whenever (21:15.32)
Her car was home.

We Wine Whenever (21:22.808)
Well, that's what, right, that's what he thought. That's what he thought, that she was at her mom's, figuring that, you know, was Christmas Eve, she was gonna go over. Her mom came and picked her up. That's what he assumed happened. That's what his words were.

Kelli (21:24.146)
And that's why he starts making phone calls.

Kelli (21:31.494)
Right.

Kelli (21:35.229)
Right.

Kelli (21:38.792)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (21:42.077)
and

Kelli (21:42.437)
So many make the phone calls to the family in case Lacey's missing.

We Wine Whenever (21:46.892)
Right, and to the friends. But at this point, he didn't call the cops. He called the friends. And then what wound up happening is Lacey Peterson's mom called the police and reported her missing.

Lori (22:00.57)
I believe it was the stepfather, the stepfather called her.

Kelli (22:05.35)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (22:05.483)
I couldn't, yeah, yeah, the stepfather, okay.

Kelli (22:12.339)
Yeah.

because he told the cops that he was golfing.

and then the cops find out that he was fishing. When he made that phone call, he said her husband was golfing. Right. Yeah.

Lori (22:21.838)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (22:25.326)
Right, right, exactly, exactly. He's the one who said that, yes, exactly. So the way that the LA Innocence Project even got involved in this, because you asked the question, like, why didn't the other Innocence Project get involved in it? The way that they got involved in it is that this filmmaker, documentary filmmaker, Shereen Anderson, she started, she's a journalist, in 2013, she started researching the case.

Now this is 10 years later, she starts researching the case and she's looking at the evidence and she was looking at the facts and she reached out to Scott in prison, but she didn't hear back from him. So she wound up reaching out to Janie Peterson and Janie Peterson is Scott, her husband is Scott's younger brother. So that's how this whole thing even came about.

Kelli (23:19.142)
No, older brother, Scott's the youngest.

Definitely older brother. He's the youngest. Yeah, because he's the only product of his parents. They both had other children from prior relationships. Yeah. Yeah, that's why he was like the golden child. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (23:26.508)
Definitely.

Lori (23:27.438)
Definitely. Yeah, you see.

We Wine Whenever (23:32.513)
Okay.

We Wine Whenever (23:37.078)
Okay. Okay. So a court, there was still a lot of unanswered questions. Now at this point, Janey Peterson is telling us that, you know, when Scott was convicted, like her family was standing by his side, Scott's family was standing by his side. They would go visit him every single week because he was initially, you know,

sentenced to death, he was given the death penalty. So they would go visit him every single week. Someone from that family would be there visiting every single week just to give him some hope. you know, and then 10 years later, this this investigator, you know, documentary filmmaker, Shereen contacts her and is like, Listen, some of this stuff isn't adding up. So all these years of

Kelli (24:11.432)
Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (24:27.79)
Lainey like looking into this and Janie, you know, standing by his side, she actually, and I don't know at what point she decides, but she becomes an attorney herself. Once her kids, I want to say her kids are grown. So it's probably like, it's not in the beginning when she's talking to this, cause this is only 10 years later. Once her kids are grown, she says, you know what? I've put so much research into this and now I know so much more about the law than I did when he was.

initially convicted. So she went to law school and became an attorney herself. And that's when other investigators start getting involved in this. And this is 10 years, you know, after he was convicted.

Kelli (25:00.457)
Yeah.

Kelli (25:11.891)
Yeah.

Lori (25:12.74)
I gotta tell you, there's very funny, I think it's funny, there's very funny memes out on social media that say, put her face on there and say, tell me you're in love with your brother -in -law without saying it.

Kelli (25:25.081)
my God.

Kelli (25:32.67)
Tell me you're in love with your brother -in -law without saying you're in love with your brother -in -law. I mean, this chick went and became a fucking lawyer to try to free him.

Lori (25:32.972)
it records their heart without saying you're in love with your brother -in -law.

Yeah, like she's just real, a little too hardcore for some people. Some people are like,

Kelli (25:44.668)
Yeah. All right. So back to back to the day she went missing. So the version I watched, the cop was like, listen, my goal here in investigating Scott was to clear Scott. I'm focusing on Scott to make sure it's not Scott. Because obviously your boyfriend or husband or significant other is going to be the first suspect, especially when they

We Wine Whenever (25:46.551)
Shit.

Lori (26:04.494)
Yes.

Lori (26:13.241)
Yes.

Kelli (26:14.652)
are gone the whole day without basically an alibi. You know? That's what the cops...

We Wine Whenever (26:20.278)
Right, but he did have the receipt. He did have the receipt.

from the boat launch. And Scott's side of that, what you just said is that he overheard the two detectives say, we think this guy's guilty. The first day, the very first day.

Kelli (26:26.459)
Yeah!

Lori (26:26.692)
Yes.

Kelli (26:39.58)
So the detective does say that he, Scott was very calm. He was extremely calm, answering questions nicely, calling him by his first name, not detective, calling him out. Like very, you know, oddly calm for somebody whose pregnant wife is missing.

Lori (27:03.268)
was my son. Yes.

Kelli (27:06.278)
And they did live near a park where lot of homeless people lived.

Lori (27:10.681)
Yes.

So now in regards back to that innocence project, I just want to tell you one other thing. So another thing that that LA Innocence Project is pushing for is that there was a jailhouse conversation that was taped. And in that conversation, an inmate stated that Lacey had confronted on a burguer, my God, I can't speak. Yeah, there you go, that works. Yeah, in progress.

We Wine Whenever (27:36.014)
burglar.

burglar.

Lori (27:43.414)
And so that tape was given over to the police department and was subsequently lost. was an inmate that was in prison who was a corrections officer overheard that, all the things are taped.

Kelli (27:48.532)
Who said that though? Who said that?

We Wine Whenever (27:54.382)
Corrections officer a correction because they would

Kelli (27:56.104)
How would he know?

We Wine Whenever (28:00.291)
Mm -mm.

Right. It hurt. He heard it on the recording. A corrections officer. Yes. Cause this was. Yes.

Lori (28:06.424)
He heard it on the recording and sent it in.

Kelli (28:10.238)
How would anybody know that though? Who's gonna say that? The burglar?

We Wine Whenever (28:14.474)
No, the burglar called someone in jail. Yes, that's who's saying it.

Kelli (28:23.316)
I don't believe that.

We Wine Whenever (28:24.408)
Because the burglars were, the two of them were in jail.

Kelli (28:29.606)
I know, we didn't even get there yet.

We Wine Whenever (28:31.192)
I know, but that's where the tape comes from. That's where the tape comes from. And the corrections officer on the Scott Peterson documentary, he's on it. And he says, I contacted the detectives twice and I told them I have this tape. And the detectives, that's part of the discovery that the defense never received. And now they're saying there's no tape that exists. And this corrections officer is saying,

Lori (28:33.38)
That's where the tape comes from.

Lori (28:57.102)
Right, now the tape is nowhere.

We Wine Whenever (29:00.706)
There is a tape and I know it because I turned it over.

Lori (29:05.05)
Yeah. So there are things. Now, another thing, per Scott's sister -in -law is that the courthouse scanner had a glitch. So when it was copying out the pages for the trial to give to, you know, each different attorney, it would glitch. So it turned out that there were like 10 pages from Scott's discovery that

We Wine Whenever (29:05.56)
So there is holes, there's definitely holes.

Lori (29:34.648)
weren't unearthed until they were going through the appeal process and going through all these boxes, documents, because the scanner had this thing where it like glitched. So they were like all squeezed together and no one had received them. Now the importance of that is when that woman neighbor had the Peterson's dog, put it back in the backyard and closed the gate.

what was missing in those pages was the information from the mailman. Now the mailman said per his timestamps, he delivered mail to that address between 10 35 and 10 50. That's when he delivers the mail to the Peterson home. And he states that the gate was a jar when he came to deliver the mail and the dog did not bark.

And he said the dog always barked when he was there, whether he was inside or outside. But the thing is, is that 25 minutes earlier is when the neighbor went and put the dog in the backyard.

Kelli (30:49.076)
So why wouldn't the dog bark when he saw the mailman?

We Wine Whenever (30:52.206)
Because the dog wasn't there, the gate was open.

Lori (30:52.314)
That's the whole question. That's the whole question. So the woman comes, she puts the dog into the backyard, closes the gate. 25 minutes later, the mailman comes, the gate is open and the dog is nowhere to be found. No. And at that timeframe, 23rd...

Kelli (31:08.254)
There's no dog.

We Wine Whenever (31:09.539)
Right.

Kelli (31:12.222)
So wait, wasn't the dog in the backyard when Scott got home?

We Wine Whenever (31:16.408)
The dog had the leash on him when Scott got home.

Lori (31:16.665)
don't know.

Kelli (31:21.203)
Right.

Lori (31:21.498)
but he was in the backyard. See that to me doesn't make sense right there because this man is saying.

Kelli (31:27.336)
Right, so where was the dog when the mailman came, but the dog was back when Scott got home.

We Wine Whenever (31:33.422)
So, well, what Scott's people are saying is, again, they're using that timeline. The prosecution's timeline is based on when they say that that woman put the dog back in the gate, but they're assuming that Lacey wasn't home. Lacey could have been home when that woman put the dog back in the gate. She could have ran in the house to get something. The phone could have rang. She could have been home. And then she went out and she took the dog for a walk.

Lori (32:02.762)
afterwards. But then how does a dog get back in the yard when Scott gets home?

We Wine Whenever (32:04.138)
Afterwards.

We Wine Whenever (32:09.612)
Well, again, if she encountered the burglars, which is what Scott's team thinks, they grabbed her. If the dog was out, they put the dog back in the, you know, the dog was on a leash. They put the dog back in the fence and they took her because there's witnesses that say that they saw.

woman being put in a pregnant woman being put into a van there's more than one witness there's five or six witnesses that say that and again

Lori (32:40.12)
Right. So then this is my.

Kelli (32:42.472)
So the one I watched, they mentioned the burglars. They didn't mention anything about a van or anything about witnesses seeing a woman getting put in a van.

We Wine Whenever (32:50.734)
And that's because it's Lacey's side and the judge decided that the timeline that the prosecution came up with was the timeline. So the burglars that were caught were caught and they said initially that they said that they did the robbery on the 27th, but they came home on the 27th. then they came, wait a second.

Kelli (33:13.556)
26. They came home on the 26th, right? I have it written down.

Lori (33:17.582)
Right. Let me say yeah because I have it written down to.

We Wine Whenever (33:19.756)
Let me see what the date was.

Kelli (33:19.758)
You're right though, the timeline didn't make sense.

We Wine Whenever (33:23.608)
So whatever date they, don't remember, don't, I mean, I have it written down here. I just don't know where.

Kelli (33:27.026)
So there was, so I feel like we're going, I feel like we're going like all over the place. So during the investigation, they realized that the neighbor's house was broken into, the next door neighbors who had left, I think on the 24th or the 23rd, they left before Christmas and came home after Christmas.

Lori (33:42.692)
24th no They left on the 24th They left on the 24th. They returned on the 26th

We Wine Whenever (33:45.826)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (33:52.59)
to 26.

Kelli (33:53.064)
So the cops settled on the 26th, but the two burglars say they burglarized the house across the street, but know nothing about Lacey. The burglars say they think they were at the house on the 27th, but the homeowners were home. So the cops settle on the 26th. But how could they have done that with all of the media coverage outside of Lacey's house? Why would they go burglarize a house?

We Wine Whenever (34:11.297)
Yes, so they changed.

Lori (34:15.972)
or the media there. Makes no sense.

We Wine Whenever (34:18.466)
Well, that's what Scott. Well, that's.

Kelli (34:21.224)
when there's fucking cops and news reporters across the street.

We Wine Whenever (34:25.217)
Well, that's what Scott's side is saying. the problem is, so that's the other problem is the prosecution, like I said, they're using this timeline of the neighbor returning the dog back as that is what happened. That's the timeline that they're saying that's the last time Lacey was seen alive is when Scott left. He was the last person to see her alive. So the judge did not allow any evidence

Kelli (34:27.079)
Okay, I do have that written down.

Kelli (34:34.665)
Mm -hmm.

Kelli (34:44.499)
also have that.

We Wine Whenever (34:54.062)
or any testimony about the burglary. That was not allowed in the trial at all. And it wasn't even investigated properly because the van was never investigated not thoroughly. It was never thoroughly investigated until 10 years later.

Kelli (35:11.582)
So the burglars came in a van?

We Wine Whenever (35:14.36)
So the burglars came in a car, the burglars are associated with the owner of the van. So the owner of the van, there was actually a van that was found, like Lori said, that there was a mattress in and that there was blood on that the fire investigator went to. And the owner of the van said his employees were allowed to take the van home to work. So two of the people, the two people that were arrested,

One of them had associations with the workers at the thing. So they broke into the house, they called their friends with the van to come and get the stuff, right? Then the place where the van was dropped off and it was burnt was again, associated with the owner of the van. It was the owner's sister's next door neighbor is where the van was burnt. Like there's just so many questions.

that were never really investigated until

until Scott's team started working on this investigation.

Lori (36:21.786)
So that van... Yes. Yes. Yes. It was tested... Yes! As early as 2019.

Kelli (36:22.078)
Did they test the DNA from the mattress and the band?

We Wine Whenever (36:24.993)
Now.

No, no, the blood was tested. The blood was, in 2019, not before his trial. That's what I'm saying. Well, they did know about it though. They did know about it. They knew about the van. And that's what I'm telling you is the police knew about the van. And a fire investigator went out there and he saw the blood stain. He took a little sample of it and he put it in the luminal.

Kelli (36:35.72)
Well, they didn't know about it. No, they didn't even know about it.

We Wine Whenever (36:55.82)
and it turned it blue, which means it's human blood. So then he had to take another sample and send it off for additional testing someplace else. And then it came back that it wasn't human blood. But there was no other testing done. It was just that one little tiny sample. There wasn't DNA testing.

Kelli (37:12.692)
So what happened in 2019, Laura?

Lori (37:15.642)
So let me say, so.

It was, I read that that was the last time that that fabric with the blood on it was tested was 2019. That's what I read. Why do I know?

Kelli (37:28.926)
but did they link it to i mean, the woman was pregnant we all know how many times they take your fucking blood when you're pregnant it's like almost every month towards the end they had enough blood to test, was it lacy's blood?

Lori (37:41.592)
I believe, I believe, I believe it was inconsequential, the amount of DNA that was on there. I don't know, but what?

We Wine Whenever (37:43.672)
But there wasn't DNA testing. Done.

We Wine Whenever (37:50.936)
But there's other things that they could have gotten DNA off of. It doesn't have to be just blood. That's what I'm saying. They didn't do DNA testing. DNA testing wasn't done. There was no forensic evidence. There was not so much as a hair. There was not so much as... The hair on the pliers was lacy's. But the van, was no forensic evidence in the van. There was none. There was none done.

Kelli (38:06.11)
There was hair on the pliers!

Kelli (38:11.422)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (38:20.886)
Except for that blood.

Lori (38:21.026)
And that van fire was reported December 25th and it was one mile from the Peterson house.

We Wine Whenever (38:30.04)
Right.

Lori (38:32.846)
So it is interesting to me. And when it was one mile from the Peterson house.

Kelli (38:33.096)
The van was set on fire.

We Wine Whenever (38:35.02)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (38:42.892)
Yeah, there's a lot of questions that really, really weren't ever answered.

Lori (38:43.128)
So.

Kelli (38:48.276)
So Scott's claim is that he woke up that morning, saw Lacey, they shared a bowl of cereal. He went to his warehouse, checked emails, and then took his boat that was at the warehouse up to the San Francisco Bay, which is 90 miles away, and went fishing for the day. And then he called her at like 2 15 and left a voicemail.

And then he went back to his warehouse, dropped the boat off, and then went home.

Lori (39:23.758)
and then went home.

We Wine Whenever (39:25.71)
430 at 430 Scott returns home

Kelli (39:28.733)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (39:30.636)
He wasn't concerned that she wasn't home because he thought she was at her mom's house. Like you said, takes his clothes off, he takes a shower, he was out fishing. Then he calls his mom and finds out she's not there. The detectives say that they canvassed the neighborhood and they're following up on tips. It is Karen's service. She was the one who found the dog running around.

Kelli (39:39.316)
Yeah, that's normal.

We Wine Whenever (39:57.454)
That's, you know, she walked the dog back to the house. She put it inside the fence. She went shopping. Then she has her receipt. That's timestamps 1034. So she probably found the dog at 1018. So they are saying that Scott, that's the timeline that they're saying. she couldn't, first of all, they're saying that Lacey couldn't have been in the house when she found the dog. She could have been in the house. How does she know she wasn't in the house? Just cause the dog was out with a leash?

Kelli (40:25.288)
Right, right.

We Wine Whenever (40:26.21)
It doesn't mean she wasn't in the house because then there's other neighbors, many other neighbors that saw her walking with the dog after that, after that timeline. And Scott was gone already. Scott was gone.

Lori (40:36.292)
So, yeah.

Kelli (40:40.531)
Right.

Lori (40:41.306)
So in regards to that, I had watched this, like I said, true crime rocket science on YouTube and this guy was interesting. He presented this theory that Scott actually killed Lacey at some point after 8 30 PM on the evening of the 23rd or early morning on the 24th. Now he says after 8 30 PM because Lacey spoke to her mother.

at 8 30 p So it was the last she was the last person to speak to Lacey was her mother and he proposes that she was either strangled or suffocated in the home and this theory is supported by the criminal profiler Sharon Hagan she was on the I believe she was on the Netflix one yeah and then he feels her body was then wrapped in chicken wire and a tarp

Kelli (41:32.692)
She was on the Netflix one.

Lori (41:39.596)
and loaded into the oversized toolbox in the bed of his truck, then driven to the warehouse where he attached the cement anchors to the chicken wire, hence suppliers with Lacey's hair wrapped around them. And then he put her in the boat, drove to the area of the marina in darkness, because there are several other launch sites besides the official marina one.

He felt that once he launched his boat, he went to the far, which is the ocean side of the Brooks Island, which would provided a visual shield. He dumped the body. And then he thinks that Scott returned to the Marine again the next day for plausible deniability, plus to check that the body was still submerged. And supposedly a bloodhound picked up a lacy scent near the Marina.

And he feels the body probably would have stayed submerged except for the extreme flood waters in the Bay in April. and it's weird cause some people say that like for the size of the boat that Scott bought, it's really not even appropriate for that body of water. I mean, that body of water has really strong wind, really strong currents. So then he,

Kelli (42:54.354)
Well, I was thinking the same thing, quite honestly.

Kelli (43:01.622)
That wasn't a big boat at all.

Lori (43:03.444)
No. So then he, you know, because there's a whole thing where people say, but how, you know, in the morning when Scott went to the marina where he has the receipt, he had to, you know, bring the boat into the water on the launch dock where there's people all over. He had to drive that boat past all types of people who live in that marina on boats. And it's a small boat. You would have been able to see if there was something in there.

so that's why this guy had brought up this theory of that he actually made two trips to the Marina. but in regards to her walking the dog, that's another thing. was she even capable at that point of the three minute walk each way, to the park? Because as far as a timeline,

on December 14th was the Christmas party that Lacey went to. She had to walk three houses down. She was exhausted by the time she got there, her friends say, and she sat in that chair the whole night. This is the picture of her when she has a red outfit on. And then

We Wine Whenever (44:01.816)
What do mean by capable?

Kelli (44:03.912)
because of her condition with people pregnant, like she was out of breath, she was...

Kelli (44:26.756)
also her friends said that she was she wasn't herself and so at this point we know now that he was cheating on her with Amber Fry she may have been hip to that and that could explain her you know withdrawn

Lori (44:41.657)
Well...

Lori (44:47.212)
Right. And another theory that comes across is, you know, she also reported to her doctor that she had tried to walk several times and ended up throwing up and felt dizzy over and over again. Her doctor told her, you really need to stop walking the dog. She had then started, because she couldn't really walk the dog, she had started some prenatal yoga classes.

Kelli (44:48.148)
You

Lori (45:15.598)
She went to that class, she had to be walked back to her car, she didn't feel well. So another thing that's out there is that Scott, being the fertilizing salesman, decided to start poisoning her. And these times when she felt really ill was one, you know, were the times that he had given her something to try and get rid of the baby, get rid of her.

Kelli (45:30.014)
Right, which I think.

Kelli (45:41.619)
Right.

Lori (45:41.946)
So there's that too. So there's the whole question of whether, you know, she was really capable of taking that walk. So it's a three mile walk from her house to the park. But like I said, on the 14th, she had a hard time walking three houses down. Now the park is like seven houses down.

So I don't know. So four days before she vanished, her yoga instructor reports that Lacey needed help getting back to her car and that Lacey commented to her that her dog was probably mad at her because she hadn't been walking him. She reported to friends that when she walked the dog, she felt dizzy and was sick to her stomach and had to return home. And this happened several times. So were these the symptoms of late pregnancy or was her fertilizer husband poisoning her?

We Wine Whenever (46:34.712)
I mean these are all possible. You know, these are all possible.

Kelli (46:36.562)
Yeah. So the first episode of the one that I watched, you know, now they're talking about how a search has started. Scott will not talk to the media at all. He stays away from the media. It's only her family. And then the first episode ends with a phone call being made to the police station. And there's a woman on the line that claims she's got Peterson, that Scott Peterson is her boyfriend and has been for a couple of months. So then we meet Amber Frost.

Lori (47:04.346)
You know what? Yeah. You know what though? When he takes, when he's in and he's interviewing with the detective for the first time and the detective asks them, how long have you been married? He goes, four or five years. can't remember. like, bro, really? I mean, I get it for me after 20 years, I don't remember how long, but you're only married. Hey, at least I got the excuse 20 years, four or five. can't like, I don't

Kelli (47:25.308)
I was gonna say, Laura, you are

We Wine Whenever (47:27.82)
Hahaha!

Kelli (47:33.842)
Yeah, that's too soon to forget how many years you've been together.

Lori (47:34.916)
That's that's too soon. Yeah, that was, that was too soon to forget. At least for me.

Kelli (47:40.466)
Yeah, so Amber starts talking to the detectives and I mean he tells her on I think it was December 9th. He told her that he lost his wife and that was the same day he bought the boat.

Lori (47:54.116)
Well, here it. Yeah. So here's the timeline with her. Yeah. So here's the timeline with Amber. October 24th, Scott meets Amber's best friend while he's at a convention. So while he's at this convention, he's acting like he's single. he makes statements like, maybe I'd have better luck with women if I put horny bastard on my name tag. Meanwhile,

Kelli (47:58.226)
He tells Amber that he lost his wife, and that's the day he bought the boat.

Lori (48:23.896)
His wife is at home planning a birthday party for him. So October, so it's the 24th, the 27th, they go to the doctors. This is the first time the baby moves. Scott is not into it at all. November 20th, Scott actually meets Amber. December 9th, he buys a boat and the same day he tells his wife, he tells Amber that his wife is dead and this is the first Christmas he's going to be spending without her.

We Wine Whenever (48:25.994)
you

Lori (48:53.848)
Then December 14th is the Christmas party that Lacey goes to alone and he goes to the party with Amber Fry.

Lori (49:04.344)
So, and then December 30th, Amber contacts the detectives to say that something ain't right. The chief is stinking in Denmark.

Kelli (49:13.916)
Right. And then they wiretap. They wiretap. So now they can hear the conversations between Amber and Scott, which are very telling.

We Wine Whenever (49:18.444)
Right.

Lori (49:22.938)
Right, 29 hours of phone conversations between Ambrons.

Kelli (49:28.179)
Yeah.

he finally tells her he's been lying about traveling and then he tells her about lacy being missing

Lori (49:31.108)
So.

Kelli (49:39.174)
And he says, once we find Lacey, I'll be able to explain everything. Now, I have here that the two burglars begged to take the polygraph because they were obviously nervous that they were going to be wrapped up in the Lacey Peterson. Right, exactly.

Lori (49:43.79)
And you know, when he was saying that...

Lori (49:49.4)
Yes.

Lori (49:58.988)
implicated. Well, this is the thing with this is the thing with that as a as any kind of felon who's incarcerated, you do not want to be involved with anything having to do with a nun, a pregnant woman, because it's as right as skelly as criminals are, they do have a certain code. And that's what I had read too, is that the

Kelli (50:15.956)
For sure. A child.

Kelli (50:24.563)
yeah.

Lori (50:27.15)
the people involved with the burglary were like, dude, was, let's take, we'll take the live right now. We're have nothing to do with it. Which could be true, could not be true. Now in regards to what you just said, when Amber and Scott were back and forth on the phone and conversation and Amber says, you know, at what point were you gonna tell me in person, Scott? And he said, you know, once we found her and she said, what was that? And he goes,

Kelli (50:32.5)
We have nothing to do with this. Yep. Hook me up right now. Right.

Lori (50:56.084)
Once we find her, then there will be resolution and I will be and he pauses and I think he wanted to say free, but he pauses and he says, I will be able to explain everything to you.

Kelli (51:12.092)
Right, right. Now the whole time I'm watching this I'm thinking up until this point.

why haven't they gone to the San Francisco Bay yet? Finally, on day 15, they go, they start focusing on the San Francisco Bay. So I do, like, I kind of believe the detective where he was like, I want, you know, I wanted to.

rule him out. Like to me that they didn't go to the San Francisco Bay until day 15 leads me to believe that they weren't really focused on him as the suspect. Unless they just thought he did it at the house and then didn't think he threw the body in the water.

Lori (51:59.258)
But this is.

Lori (52:02.926)
This is the thing though, no matter what, say Scott didn't do it.

Whoever the fuck did do it, why would you drive 90 minutes away to dump the body in the water? The same exact place.

Kelli (52:18.836)
Well, that's what I'm saying. He must not have been a suspect because if he were the primary suspect, where was he that day? He was in the San Francisco Bay. Why wouldn't they go check there first? If he was really their number one suspect.

We Wine Whenever (52:32.238)
Well, Scott's explanation for that is the police. So once Amber Fry came public and she did her press conference, And then the search for Lacey really kind of stopped. they really weren't, and that's what he said he was afraid of. Like if they found out that I was cheating on her, then they're going to think I did it and they're not going to search for her.

Kelli (53:01.384)
Right, the focus was now on him being a cheater and not the fact that his wife is still missing. Yes.

We Wine Whenever (53:01.418)
Okay. Right. Exactly. And the other, the other thing he says is the Modesto police department told the murderers where to put the body because they told the murderers where Scott was and where he knew that the Modesto police department was looking at Scott Peterson because he, had a girlfriend and he cheated on her and he already lied about that.

Kelli (53:25.524)
So he thinks that on day 15 when they announced that they were going to go look at the San Francisco Bay somebody went and dumped her body up there.

We Wine Whenever (53:31.596)
Well, she had been there already. They had already dumped it there because they had already at that point. mean, Amber, Amber was came out to the police on the 30th. I don't what was the date that she I mean, look at the date that she had her press conference, because when she had her press conference, that's when every that's when they stopped really, you know, the search party stopped looking.

Kelli (53:41.298)
Yeah.

Kelli (53:51.996)
I have to be, have to, I mean, listen, clearly I'm not a criminal investigator. I do billing for a law firm by the way. But, her body, if her body was so decomposed that only her spinal cord showed up, she was in that water for quite some time.

We Wine Whenever (54:14.23)
Well, we know she was in that water for quite some time because they didn't find her until April and she went missing in December. Right? She went missing in December. So we know her body was in the water for a long time.

Lori (54:17.617)
April, right,

We Wine Whenever (54:27.426)
You know, I'm just telling you that's his explanation as to why she would have been found there is because the Modesto Police Department let everybody know where Scott Peterson was. And the Modesto Police Department was saying that he wasn't cooperating and had already announced that he had lied about having a girlfriend. I'm not saying that Scott's not guilty. What I'm saying is there is reasonable doubt and I don't believe that the jury

and the defense was able to put on the proper defense because I don't believe that they had the information, one that the prosecutors had, and I don't think that the detectives did enough of the research. I think that they did think he was guilty. I do. Because who, you know, the burglary, there was a lot that went on with that, that again, it wasn't even allowed to be presented to the, it wasn't even allowed to be, it wasn't allowed to be mentioned in court. Not at all.

Kelli (55:12.787)
Yeah.

Kelli (55:25.202)
Yeah, and after Amber's press conference, Lacey's family then had a press conference basically saying they no longer support Scott.

We Wine Whenever (55:32.224)
Right, right. So, you know, it's, listen, like I said, I definitely, the guy's a cheater, the guy's a liar, the guy's a dog. I don't know that that means he's a murderer. I don't know that that, you know.

Kelli (55:34.366)
So.

Kelli (55:42.992)
sure. That's what the jurors said on the Netflix show. There was the first juror. I don't know if it was the foreman. don't know if the number one juror is the foreman. So when you have a jury, somebody's picked as the foreman and that's spokesperson. I would assume so, but I don't know if the next person gets a title. Right, exactly. So was number one and number four. But basically that's what they said.

We Wine Whenever (55:58.252)
Yeah, I don't know if it's the number. I would assume it would be the number one, but who...

We Wine Whenever (56:05.846)
Number one, right.

Kelli (56:12.946)
Was he a scumbag husband? For sure, no doubt. But that doesn't make him a murderer, obviously.

We Wine Whenever (56:19.5)
Right, right.

Lori (56:20.184)
No, but I think that no matter what, there's something very fundamentally wrong with Scott Peterson. I definitely think that he is a class A narcissist. I think that he has emotional and mental problems. I don't think that he's your run of the mill guy. I really believe that he really exerts all the symptoms of a narcissistic personality disorder.

Kelli (56:49.394)
Well, if he was truly the golden child and his parents never held him accountable for anything and let him get away with things, you know, that could lead to that.

Lori (57:00.346)
Well, look, there's there's also Yes, there's also the story of his mother. Okay, so his mother states that You know as a child Scott's feet barely ever touched the ground because someone is always holding him He was the golden child. Okay, so looking at his mother Scott's mother Jackie as a mom her own father was murdered on the 21st

Kelli (57:08.21)
Yeah, get into that.

Lori (57:27.834)
in 1945 and his body was found on Christmas Eve, bludgeoned. Okay. And this is when she was only two and a half. Her mother had a mental breakdown and placed her in a Catholic school that was basically an orphanage at age five. She only saw her mother like once a week. Her mother passed away when Jackie was 18. Jackie subsequently had two children from two different men.

and both were given up for adoption before she had Scott. And you you see her walking around with the oxygen. In that orphanage, she had several reoccurring lung infections, and that's why she is on that oxygen. So needless to say, Scott was doted upon, and it's kind of like almost a pattern between him and her, especially with the timing and the Christmas, it's just weird.

so the more indulgent and lacking in boundaries, the more serious the character disorder of narcissism is created. And it's usually happening from either permissive parenting, which I think was what Scott had, or abusive patterns, parenting. So was Scott's mom, the mom that let him do whatever he wanted, filled him with grandiose ideas? Was she smothering but emotionally unavailable?

She certainly felt guilty and spoiled him or was he just born that way? But either way he seems incapable or at in the very least frightened of emotion, the emotional commitment and investment that having a child would bring on. You know, he was not interested in feeling the baby kick, but you know, Amber's, Amber Fry's child caused him no problem at all.

I mean, his parents try and make it seem like this relationship that he had with Amber Fry was just like the sexual thing. But no, because he picked her kid up from school. He made them elaborate meals. You know, he totally love bombed April and her, Amber Fry and her kid also. So I think as soon as he wasn't like Prince Charming with Lacey's full attention now in the pregnancy,

Kelli (59:45.949)
Yeah.

Lori (59:52.644)
as her pregnancy advances, advances. think between that, having a baby when he really didn't want to, finding out that he had these, two step siblings and that his mother was basically has lied to him. Cause she, the way I read things was she was always trying to be like the perfect mom, perfect mother, like holier than now.

even gave Lacey a hard time. So it's this whole persona that his mother put on to then find out, but you just, ditched two of your kids.

Kelli (01:00:30.516)
Yeah, so she had two other kids that she gave up for adoption, and one of them now wrote a book called Blood Brother, 33 Reasons Why My Brother Scott Peterson is Guilty. So I asked our friend at the library to get that for me, and I'm going to read that. But there's another book Lori found. Talk about that.

Lori (01:00:37.134)
Yes.

Lori (01:00:42.884)
Yeah, so.

Lori (01:00:52.302)
Yeah, there's another book. Well, let me find the one for that book.

We Wine Whenever (01:00:58.526)
But while you're looking for it, I just want to say, listen, he can be a narcissist and he can be a horrible person. And we kind of all agree about that, but that doesn't make him a murderer.

Kelli (01:01:11.316)
No, but him being in the San Francisco Bay and then her washing up and an unborn fetus washing up in the San Francisco Bay, like to me, if I were on that jury, because the jury only deliberated for 90 minutes, that's not a very long time.

We Wine Whenever (01:01:28.426)
No, like I said, but that's all circumstantial. This is circumstantial evidence because if, listen, one of the things that the judge did grant is DNA testing on that duct tape that Lacey was washed up with. So let's see if Scott's, if Scott Peterson's DNA is on there, well, then we have something concrete. Then we know that Scott is guilty because why else would his DNA be on that duct tape? Right?

Lori (01:01:28.983)
Ahem.

Kelli (01:01:46.195)
Yeah!

Kelli (01:01:55.155)
Right.

Lori (01:01:57.658)
on the duct tape.

Kelli (01:01:57.811)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (01:01:59.096)
So like I said, really, it's not like we're questioning whether or not he's guilty or he's innocent. Really the question is, did he have a fair trial? And that's really what it comes down to.

Lori (01:02:11.972)
Well, I'm just saying that there are reasons that lead up to myself and other people thinking that he's guilty. And one of them is, is because he's a narcissist. That definitely helped it along the way.

Kelli (01:02:12.166)
and Lacey's mom. Go ahead.

We Wine Whenever (01:02:15.021)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:02:28.632)
I

100 % agree, but what I'm saying is when you're in and Kelly can attest to this too when you're in a court It's not about personality, you know, it's not about you know, it's not about that. It's about a hard evidence forensic evidence not Circumstantial evidence is circumstantial evidence, you know It is what it is and I really believe that he was convicted in the court of public opinion before it even went to trial

Kelli (01:02:45.129)
Facts.

Kelli (01:03:01.16)
read and that that is why they changed venue they changed venue I agree because of the media coverage you're right yeah

We Wine Whenever (01:03:04.856)
There was no place, there was no venue you could change because it was national news, because it was national coverage. It was national coverage. And that's, you know, that's the problem. That's the problem.

Kelli (01:03:14.162)
Yeah, but the California Supreme Court did overturn the death penalty because they don't feel that the jury was being... the jury was unproperly screened for bias.

We Wine Whenever (01:03:26.818)
Yeah. So what happened was the judge would ask the jurors if they, if they believed in the death penalty and if the jurors said, I don't believe in the death penalty, the judge dismissed them. The judge is supposed to, if he asks, do you believe in the death penalty? And they say, I don't believe in the death penalty. The judge is supposed to ask additional questions and the judge did not do that. So that

is the reason it was overturned. The sentence was overturned. Right. And now they're trying to get him a new trial, but they need to get the evidence that they need to see if a new trial is warranted because they weren't given some of the discovery and they weren't

Kelli (01:03:56.06)
Yeah, so now he's on life without parole.

Kelli (01:04:11.468)
Honestly, there probably wasn't the forensic testing that back then that there is now so great

We Wine Whenever (01:04:17.518)
Yes, there is. It's you guys are like, this is 20 years ago. There were cell phones 20 years ago. There was, they traced him by his cell phone. There was forensic evidence 20 years ago. It's not like those things weren't around. They were absolutely around.

Kelli (01:04:29.46)
But the DNA testing that they have now, that wasn't around 20 years ago.

We Wine Whenever (01:04:34.122)
absolutely, 20 years ago there was DNA testing, yes there was.

Kelli (01:04:36.904)
But not like there is now. That's what I'm saying. Like it's much more progressed now.

We Wine Whenever (01:04:42.67)
But it wasn't even done, you know, the tests weren't even done. And evidence is missing. And, you know, there are other factors. And like I said, I'm not saying that he's not guilty. I'm just saying that at the least this is a man's life. And whether he's in prison or he's out of prison, like he should have a fair trial. That's all.

Kelli (01:04:45.608)
Right.

Kelli (01:04:52.807)
Yeah.

Kelli (01:05:03.656)
Right.

Yeah, no, I think that they should, I mean, I'll be really interested to see if they do get this, you know, yeah, for sure. I mean, so Lori found another book.

Lori (01:05:14.05)
A new trial. Yeah.

Yeah, so in

Lori (01:05:21.976)
Yeah. So there is, let me just talk about the, the book with his sister. So that like we said before is called blood brother. Okay. And that is written by a woman called Ann bird, who is Scott's stepsister. Now after Scott was introduced, yeah, yeah, have to, yeah, have sister. So.

Kelli (01:05:46.034)
Half sister half sister Yeah

We Wine Whenever (01:05:46.87)
Half sister, say mother.

Lori (01:05:51.54)
After Scott was introduced to her, they became close. She became close with Lacey. And after Lacey's disappearance for five months, Scott lived with this Ann Bird in San Francisco. Ann's husband was very leery of Scott's and then incidents occurred that changed Ann's mind about Scott's innocence. Scott's...

hits on a very young babysitter to which Jackie even calls later on calls and and says tells it a lie about it and says if anybody asked about that babysitter incident it didn't happen. Scott's drinking excessively and he's watching porn on the family's computer. So his sister his half sister whom he lived with for five months then decided

No, I'm not digging it. So then there was another book and this one is called...

Lori (01:07:01.594)
Let's see, it was always me by John Cameron, Camerman. And it says, forget everything you know or thought you knew about the most publicly covered murders of our time. The evidence in this book leads to one man committing the most chilling and widely known murders that have captivated the public's interest and caused terror throughout communities, including the Zodiac killings.

Based on the investigation by veteran detective John Cameron and others contained in this book, Edward Edwards is also now linked to the murder of Steve Avery, the Black Dahlia, and Lacey Peterson, for which he set up Scott Peterson, who is currently on death row for killing her. The evidence also strongly suggests that he killed Jambonet Ramsey and that he framed the parents who were later exonerated.

So that's not, that is called It Was Always Me by John Cameron and is in regards to a person named Edward Edwards who is a serial killer. So that's a whole nother wackadoo aspect. There's a whole other layer.

Kelli (01:07:59.997)
And what's it called?

Kelli (01:08:11.859)
How about that?

We Wine Whenever (01:08:13.966)
Yeah.

Kelli (01:08:16.212)
It's a whole other layer.

We Wine Whenever (01:08:18.51)
That is a whole other layer. I'm looking at my notes here again. So in addition to the corrections officer, I actually have his name, was Xavier Ponte, who had the recording that we talked about earlier. There was also a watch. So Lacey had this Croton watch that was given to her from her grandmother. And she was wearing it. She was wearing it on Christmas Eve because she was gonna wear it over to her.

her parents' because that's where they were going on Christmas Eve. She wanted her parents to see it. And that watch was brought into a pawn shop on 12 -31 -2002. It was brought in by a woman. The pawn shop called the police and they came in and they took the watch. Now nobody knows where the watch is.

Lori (01:09:07.981)
Nobody knows what it was.

Kelli (01:09:08.264)
Why did the pawn shop call the police?

We Wine Whenever (01:09:10.52)
Because they have to. if they suspect, they, the pawn shops have rules. They have to keep things for a certain amount of time. If they think things are stolen or suspicious, they have to report it. Like those are things that they have to report. So it may have come out that she was, I don't know specifically why, but I do know that pawn shops need to do that. And the pawn shop owner said, listen, I called them about the watch.

Kelli (01:09:12.722)
How did they know that it was missing?

We Wine Whenever (01:09:40.738)
They came in, they took the watch. The watch is missing now. There was no testing done on that watch. There was no DNA testing done on that watch. It may or may not have been her watch, but it was a very distinctive watch. You know, it was an...

Kelli (01:09:53.702)
It's just interesting to me that the pawn shop would know to call the cops about a watch. I'm sure they get watches every day.

Lori (01:10:02.862)
Yeah, I don't know why they they what made them hungry.

We Wine Whenever (01:10:05.43)
Again, maybe it was reported what she was wearing, you know?

Kelli (01:10:11.785)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:10:13.548)
Maybe he thought it was suspicious.

Lori (01:10:16.398)
Yeah, maybe there was just something that tipped him off. Now in regards to Amber Fry, she's got kind of a messed up story too. it's just interesting how all these pieces of the puzzle add up to people getting into these different relationships and making these different choices. So Amber Fry's mom was divorced when she was four and her mom was always on a manhunt. She had three husbands in two years and

Once she was with husband number three, she sent, yeah, not married. She sends Amber and her sister live with their dad, their dad when Amber was six. When Amber was 12, she went back to live with her mom and her sister stayed with the dad. And after high school, she was fighting with her mom. She moves back in with her dad.

Kelli (01:10:46.994)
That's a lot of work, man.

Gosh. Can't you just have sex with them and not marry them?

Lori (01:11:14.958)
Her first boyfriend was controlling. Her second boyfriend, she was with him real quick and had an abortion. A week later, she meets a married man with a pregnant wife. And this guy gives her some whole song and dance about how they, just got married in Vegas and, you know, he doesn't want the baby and the whole thing. So he gives her the song and dance, they move in together. But the guy keeps going home to see the wife.

that he's still married to and the baby. So then she moves out. then a month later, I didn't have the month, I didn't have the year. Nope, a month later, she meets someone else and they move in together. They move in together and she gets pregnant, he splits. After that is when she meets Scott. So I'm just saying there is a setup for Amber too.

We Wine Whenever (01:11:51.82)
And what year was that?

wait, a month later is that when she meets Scott?

We Wine Whenever (01:12:01.633)
god.

Lori (01:12:13.624)
went through a very hard time and here comes Mr. Charming, Mr. Golden Boy with all his bullshit. just the amount of lies that he told her and the lengths that he went to, he gave his friends in Europe names when he was supposedly in Paris at the Eiffel Tower. Like he would call her from, he would call her from, he would call her from.

Kelli (01:12:18.343)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:12:37.516)
All right. Yeah, yeah, and he wasn't even there.

Kelli (01:12:38.748)
Yeah, yeah

Lori (01:12:41.754)
No, he would call her from the bathroom in his house and you hear the shower running because he's talking to her at home when Lacey's there. Just like the, the elaborateness of his bullshit was just unbelievable. So in 2006, Amber Frye marries a police officer and she gets divorced two later, two years later. So she has two kids now. And,

Kelli (01:12:58.728)
Yeah.

Lori (01:13:10.89)
know, Lacey's baby was due on February 10th, which was Amber Fry's birthday.

Kelli (01:13:19.162)
Ugh. Yeah.

Lori (01:13:20.419)
So it's just weird, the weird coincidence in it, like Scott's grandfather was killed on Christmas Eve, Lacey goes missing on Christmas Eve, know, all these different messed up relationships that the people involved had before that they got together. It's just this recipe for an absolute shit show disaster.

Kelli (01:13:41.769)
Yeah.

Kelli (01:13:47.112)
Well, going back to what you said about him going to great lengths, the jurors in the show that I watched didn't think the affair was a big deal, but the charade he kept up in the line was a big deal. The investigator profiler said his behavior and emotional detachment led them to believe that he was guilty.

Lori (01:13:59.671)
yeah.

Lori (01:14:09.764)
He even

Kelli (01:14:10.581)
like, his behavior almost implicated him more.

Lori (01:14:14.946)
himself. He even gave gifts from his own, from Connors baby shower. He brought Amber Fry's kid, two year old, gifts that he got from the baby shower.

Kelli (01:14:30.046)
But they never had the baby shower because she went missing before they had it.

We Wine Whenever (01:14:34.574)
They, yeah, that's true.

Lori (01:14:36.58)
but she had gifts that people had given her. But she had gifts that people had given her. I mean, she's eight and a half months pregnant. You have received gifts. But yeah, so just.

Kelli (01:14:37.704)
They never had it.

We Wine Whenever (01:14:39.67)
Yeah, it must have been gifts. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli (01:14:41.434)
like, okay, okay.

Kelli (01:14:47.348)
How about how his parents got his lawyer? His parents saw Mark Garagos on Larry King saying he was innocent. They're like, that's our guy. That's our guy. And then Amber gets Gloria all red. Pro Bono!

We Wine Whenever (01:14:52.45)
Him on Larry King.

Lori (01:14:58.894)
night.

We Wine Whenever (01:15:07.01)
Yeah.

Well, that's what Gloria does. That's what Gloria does.

Kelli (01:15:11.452)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Listen, I hope he gets a new trial because I kind of want to see more of this. I'm going to read that book, Blood Brother, or he's going to read the other book. So maybe we'll have a part two of this. We're already at an hour and 15.

Lori (01:15:23.64)
I'm going to read the other one.

We Wine Whenever (01:15:26.422)
we're definitely going to have to have a. Yeah, I mean, we definitely will have a part two because we need to know like what's going to happen, because right now we don't know what's going to happen. You know, we we're getting the DNA testing done on that. We don't have the results of that yet. So we're going to have to wait and see what happens because there's a lot of things we don't know yet. I will also mention that in 2014, another interviewer, this guy, Mike, he went.

Kelli (01:15:36.211)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:15:54.51)
And he was doing some investigating and he found the original fire investigator, Brian Spitowski. And when he showed up, the fire investigator said, I've been waiting for 10 years for somebody to show up here. Yeah. Because of the van. Like that van was never properly investigated. Cause he knew.

Kelli (01:16:09.427)
Really?

Kelli (01:16:15.334)
And it went on and it got set on fire before they like it got set on fire. So now there's no testing it period.

We Wine Whenever (01:16:19.372)
It got set up. Yes.

Well, there, I mean, he did submit samples and there, let's see the police.

Lori (01:16:29.37)
There was a small area that still had a blood stain on it that had not been totally burnt.

We Wine Whenever (01:16:40.278)
Yeah, so they could... Yeah.

Kelli (01:16:40.402)
Either way, that van was, participated in some kind of illegal, illegal criminal behavior. Yeah. Something happened in the van. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:16:45.152)
Something happened in that van. Something happened in that van because not only that, like the last person to drive the van had a criminal record. He was a family member of the owner of the van who was associated with Stephen Todd and Stephen Todd was one of the burglars that was guilty. Stephen Todd's wife's sister lived next to the house where the van was found burned.

Lori (01:16:45.231)
something.

Kelli (01:17:08.862)
Okay.

We Wine Whenever (01:17:09.654)
Like it's all connected, like, and it was never really investigated. And why was the van even burned if it was used in a burglary? Because the owner of the van said they were allowed to use it so they could use the van, took the stuff they needed to, and then put the van back the next day. The only reason you burn that van is because there's evidence in it that needs to be destroyed. And the evidence is that that I think that Lacey Peterson was in that van because there's plenty of people that said that they saw

Kelli (01:17:28.35)
You're trying to destroy evidence. Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:17:39.928)
people putting a pregnant woman into the van. Like, how could that have not been brought up? That wasn't brought up. You know, like I said, I don't think Scott Peterson's a good guy.

Kelli (01:17:48.893)
Right.

And then Scott's saying that, that those, whoever, whoever those criminals were had heard already that where he had been on his boat. So then they brought the body up there and dumped her body. Okay.

We Wine Whenever (01:18:01.204)
acts, yes. Yes, yes, that's their blueprint and how to frame him, how to get it, how to get it, you know, or, you know, even like Lori said, maybe the serial killer. Now the serial killer knows where to dump the body too. Like there's a lot of things it could be, but we don't know. So we're definitely gonna have to do another part to this when we find out more.

Kelli (01:18:08.018)
Right. Right.

Kelli (01:18:15.889)
Right, right.

Kelli (01:18:23.302)
yeah for sure for sure i was just gonna ask something and it went right out of my head my god i have to start playing the drinking game every time i forget what i was about to say i drank although

Lori (01:18:25.796)
So I wanted to bring up in regard...

We Wine Whenever (01:18:26.894)
And I think...

We Wine Whenever (01:18:34.498)
think that's not gonna help anyway. That's gonna help you remember.

Lori (01:18:34.81)
Thank you.

Kelli (01:18:37.556)
Although I've had two drinks and I'm out already so I don't think I need a drinking game to get through my drinks

Lori (01:18:43.258)
So when I brought up, no, when I brought up Lacey's life insurance policy, I wanted to bring that up because October 2005, Lacey's life insurance policy was awarded to her mother. And her mother had actually,

her mom had filed a $5 million wrongful death.

case in regards to her daughter and then she later in April 2009 she drops that civil suit

Kelli (01:19:18.265)
Who was she filing that against?

Lori (01:19:20.708)
Well, you know, just like when, yeah, like when, you know, how that's what, but that's what OJ Simpson was found guilty of just a wrongful death suit. He wasn't found guilty of murder in court, but, Nicole Simpson's family filed a wrongful death suit against them. And that's what Scott's, Lacey's mother was born for Scott.

We Wine Whenever (01:19:21.71)
Scott?

Kelli (01:19:26.589)
You normally -

We Wine Whenever (01:19:44.238)
much was the life insurance policy that she was awarded? How much was that?

Lori (01:19:47.162)
Only $2 ,500. It wasn't a lot of money.

We Wine Whenever (01:19:52.59)
$2 ,500.

Lori (01:19:53.562)
You know, no, $250 ,000, sorry.

250. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like it was a whole bunch because he was found guilty. Yeah. They said, no. Yeah. No.

We Wine Whenever (01:20:03.822)
That makes make more sense. But that's interesting. Why was it awarded to her? Because was it awarded to her because he was found guilty? Yeah, so if he's found innocent, then she owes him 250. I don't think he'll be going after it, but yeah.

Kelli (01:20:12.296)
was incarcerated. So she must have been second.

Lori (01:20:23.982)
Maybe? No.

Kelli (01:20:26.504)
Yeah, he better just sit down.

Lori (01:20:29.176)
Yeah, just sit down. But did you know like when you saw him on that Diane Sawyer thing, interview, he was like, he said, Lacey was, Lacey, Lacey was amazing. She was like, what? Was? Yeah.

Kelli (01:20:32.613)
Sit down, Scott.

We Wine Whenever (01:20:39.167)
he was a disaster.

Kelli (01:20:40.974)
he was a disaster on that for sure.

We Wine Whenever (01:20:48.362)
No, he was a disaster. Listen, if he's guilty of anything, it's of being an idiot, being a cheater, being a philanderer, being a narcissist. These are things that we could definitely say he's guilty of. Not being media trained, not being too bright.

Kelli (01:20:54.259)
Oof.

Kelli (01:21:05.992)
Why did he say he would take... the first night he said he would take a polygraph and then his father talked him out of it?

Lori (01:21:13.336)
Yes, father talked him out of it.

We Wine Whenever (01:21:13.42)
Well, because, I mean, his father talked him out of it because honestly, a polygraph is not, you can't use it in court. It's not conclusive. It can't help him in court. It can only hurt him. So why would you take it? would, myself personally, I would never take a polygraph. I would never take a polygraph. And to be honest with you, from what I've seen, I don't even think I would ever talk to a police officer, to be quite honest with you, without representation, without an attorney, because

Lori (01:21:20.804)
Conclusive.

Kelli (01:21:32.168)
Right, right.

We Wine Whenever (01:21:43.278)
I watched this, there's this one woman on TikTok, I have to find out her name for you. She's an attorney and she tells you all the time, like what happens. And even if you're innocent, she explains to you why you don't talk to the police because how they twist things around. So honestly, don't look at people as guilty for not cooperating with the police. I don't, listen, I have police in my family and there's good police and there's bad police, but

Kelli (01:21:59.838)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:22:11.82)
You have to protect you. And I'll be honest with you. I don't know that I would ever, I know for a fact I'd never take a polygraph test. I don't know that I would talk to the police without an attorney either.

Lori (01:22:21.848)
No, I would never talk to him about an attorney either.

Kelli (01:22:21.864)
Right. Right.

We Wine Whenever (01:22:24.206)
Even if I'm innocent. yes, you have a choice. absolutely have. You should absolutely have a choice. you're, if you're, if you're, yes, you do. You should have a choice.

Kelli (01:22:25.298)
Sometimes you don't have a choice though. Not if you're a juvenile.

Kelli (01:22:36.082)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:22:39.02)
If you say you want an attorney, they have to respect that. They have to get you an attorney.

I mean, the question is you have to say it. You have to say it.

Lori (01:22:46.786)
Right. So now, did anybody know this? Now, when Scott was found at the golf course, he had a MapQuest that was printed out when they went to arrest him. Yeah, that's right. I should explain. Yeah. Yeah. He had a MapQuest thing printed out and it was printed out that morning for

Kelli (01:22:47.09)
Right.

Kelli (01:22:58.728)
When was he found at the golf course? that's right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm thinking initially. Sorry.

We Wine Whenever (01:23:00.728)
That's where they arrested him.

Lori (01:23:16.046)
directions to Amber Fry's workplace.

Kelli (01:23:19.892)
What? I thought you were gonna say the Tijuana.

Lori (01:23:22.348)
And there was no, and the later, you know, he was in that later model Mercedes when they found him, that was purchased the day before by his mother. And the reasoning or the supposition behind it is that that Mercedes had no tracking. Like it was old enough that there was no, you know, there was no low jack. There was no, there was no tracking available. They couldn't track.

Kelli (01:23:48.808)
Mm -hmm.

We Wine Whenever (01:23:49.262)
They couldn't track it, but they were tracking him by his phone. They were tracking him by his phone. And the day that he was, yeah, but the day that he was arrested, I'm glad you brought that up because that's something else. The day that he was arrested, was pulling into that golf course, right? Because he was meeting his brother and his father there. They found $10 ,000 in cash, which he had just gotten from his brother because he was selling his brother his truck.

Lori (01:23:55.195)
Well, he had several. He several. He had several phones in the car.

We Wine Whenever (01:24:17.218)
They found his brother's ID in there, but he was using his brother's ID because his brother lived in the county where they were going to play golf and it was cheaper for an in -county resident to play golf there. again, I don't know that these are good, but these are reasons. These are reasons that would explain these things.

Lori (01:24:37.166)
Right. So now in regards to the money, real quick, the thing with the money though is that from the family themselves, they supposedly kept changing their story. Like one thing it was like what you said, Wendy, with he was gonna buy the truck. And then someone else in the family said, no, Scott's mom gave that to him to pay the lawyer. And then somebody else in the family said,

Kelli (01:24:38.502)
Liars can come up with lies real quick.

Lori (01:25:04.462)
You know, that was taken out incorrectly from a joint account and Scott's mom gave it to him so he could read deposit it. So.

We Wine Whenever (01:25:12.524)
Right. Yeah, exactly. Who does know? Who knows? Right.

Lori (01:25:13.293)
Yeah, who knows?

Lori (01:25:17.732)
So the only way that it was somebody... Yeah. I was gonna say the only way is that, that I can think of that makes any sense is either a serial killer, either Scott did it himself, and he did it the way that that guy said he did it and did it the night before. And when he left in the morning, he just let...

Kelli (01:25:18.814)
There's just a lot of things.

Lori (01:25:45.324)
He just had the dog in the backyard with his leash on and left the gate open. Or like Wendy said, they knew where to dump the body because of the television coverage.

Kelli (01:25:59.271)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:25:59.586)
and the burglars could have been involved.

Kelli (01:26:01.96)
Right. Right.

Lori (01:26:02.16)
Right, like that's what I'm saying, like whoever was involved knew it.

We Wine Whenever (01:26:03.918)
Because there could have been more than two burglars. They only arrested two. There could have been more than two. There could have been more people involved. Listen, there's theory. So, and we're not going to be able to solve this case tonight, sorry to say. Are crackpot investigating.

Kelli (01:26:07.75)
Right. Right.

Kelli (01:26:18.056)
The jury, well, no, the jury's not still out, but... Yes, exactly. I am gonna read, I'm gonna read that book, Blood Brother, though. I'm not a fast reader, though, people, so...

Lori (01:26:22.156)
Our crackpot investigating is still out.

Lori (01:26:27.833)
Yeah.

That's alright.

We Wine Whenever (01:26:31.084)
All right, so listen, let us know what you think. Put your comments in. We're open to anything. These are just our theories. Again, we haven't made a conclusion. My conclusion is I think that he needs to have another trial. I think we need to get the discovery. I think we need to get the DNA evidence and give him another trial. That's what I think.

Kelli (01:26:46.643)
Yeah.

Kelli (01:26:53.332)
I still personally think he's guilty, but I want to see him get a new trial because I want to see them come up with the, you know, use the technology they have now in 2024 to prove it.

We Wine Whenever (01:27:03.554)
Yeah. What do you think, Laura?

Lori (01:27:04.398)
Right. I think he's guilty. I don't have a problem with another trial. It's fucked up. The taxpayers have to pay for it. But I don't have a problem with another trial. I do think that he's guilty. I do. I just think that there's too much in his background. There's too much in his personality. I just...

We Wine Whenever (01:27:08.461)
Okay.

Lori (01:27:33.506)
I just think he did it.

But who knows? What do I know? I'm some chick sitting in her sun porch in Brick, New Jersey. What the fuck do I know? You know what mean? What do I know?

We Wine Whenever (01:27:36.46)
All right, so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

We Wine Whenever (01:27:45.55)
Who by the way, you'll never see because she doesn't want to be on camera. you'll only hear this chick's voice.

Lori (01:27:49.102)
That you'll never say. That's right.

Kelli (01:27:50.11)
think that needs to be a gif. I'm just, yeah, exactly. Let me just ask you a quick question. When was the van set on fire?

Lori (01:27:53.134)
That's right.

Lori (01:27:59.918)
the 25th.

December 25th. Yes. Yes.

Kelli (01:28:03.528)
the next day from when she went missing?

Okay, at that time, would the killers have known that Scott was fishing up in the San Francisco Bay at that point? No, it was only the next day. There was no media coverage yet.

Lori (01:28:18.426)
On the tour on the 25th.

We Wine Whenever (01:28:22.382)
Yes, but who says that they they dumped it then? Who says?

Kelli (01:28:25.746)
That's what I'm saying. So they had to remove her body somewhere else outside of the van to set the van on fire. Then where'd the body go? So there's a of movement here.

Lori (01:28:34.018)
Right until it was dumped. There's a lot of movement there. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (01:28:37.411)
Yeah.

Kelli (01:28:39.538)
I just thought of that. yeah, we're almost at an hour and a half, man. We have to land the plane. We have got to land the plane.

We Wine Whenever (01:28:41.197)
Okay.

Lori (01:28:44.058)
Nobody wants. No. Yeah. Nobody wants to listen to us for 10 minutes. No less than a

We Wine Whenever (01:28:44.108)
No one wants to listen to us that long. Okay. Okay. Until next time.

If you've made it this long, if you've made it this long, thank you for watching and listening to We Why Whenever. I'm Wendy.

Kelli (01:28:54.215)
We do, Lure!

Lori (01:28:55.642)
Well, well.

Lori (01:28:59.992)
commend you.

Kelli (01:29:00.724)
I'm Kelly.

Lori (01:29:02.732)
And I'm Lori. What?

We Wine Whenever (01:29:03.65)
Who are? Okay. Bye.

Lori (01:29:08.549)
Bye.